Game Talk (I'm putting this extra little bit here because the original title was too short)

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Mon May 12, 2014 10:37 pm

Actually, it's not so hard to keep straight, it's just difficult to control at times. And you can turn off the Flow-Motion attacks (individually, I may add) if you want to avoid activating one by accident. My problem with it is actually the delay in going into and coming out of Flowmotion mode. It's not as free-flowing as it ought to be...

Of course, the demo didn't let you change commands or Dream Eaters or anything. So that's a problem. It also features commands you won't have until much later than that point, but you probably guessed that.

...He sounds awkward in that cutscene? Huh, I don't remember so clearly. Well, it's not like we'll force you to play it. That would be difficult for us to pull off, and you probably already know the game's plot. And some of its insights into ho the whole Person-Heartless-Nobody thing works. ...But you know the rule about how destroying the Heartless and then the Nobody brings back the original person? That wasn't stated outright anywhere in the games. In one scene, Yen Sid says that the two halves having been freed lets them recombine, but he never said anything about the order of killing.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue May 13, 2014 12:29 am

Personally, I think Flowmotion should have been more like a reaction command than just working automatically...I can't tell you how many times I screwed up on the Tron Legacy Riku Mode boss because of it. THe camera does not work well with being locked on to something eternally moving in a circle, especially not when you suddenly jump off of that circle. At least once I died and burst into a string of curses because camera. Granted this was either on Proud or Critical, so...

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Post  Maverick Entity on Tue May 13, 2014 2:11 am

Oh, I knew the plot long ago, hence why I couldn't be bothered to play. I still remember Axel being a badass towards the end with messing up Xehanort's master plan and all that.

I did find it funny how overtly broken the demo Sora was. I mean, it felt like the boss died in two minutes, and his translated name, I broke out laughing when I read it.
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Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue May 13, 2014 3:00 am

Personally, I really enjoy it. It has a few flaws in the means of gameplay mechanics (like the aforementioned camera glitch, as well as the fact that the Drop gauge can really disrupt the flow of the game (even if it usually doesn't)).

Also, yes, that moment with Axel. Anyway, point is, I still think it's really fun, even if it is broken at times. Dash into the wall, super jump, dash at the wall, super jump, dash at the wall, super jump...I get endless amusement out of hitting the ceiling by doing that...

That being said, though, if you don't care for it, I totally understand, though the plot is...well, let's just say "really important" and leave it at that. But if you know the plot and don't really like the gameplay, you technically don't really have a reason to play it.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Tue May 13, 2014 3:58 am

...Also, one of the areas is glitched. In the corner of an area in Sora's part of Cite de Cloches, you can glitch through the walls or floor and fall into the endless blue outside of the game. I've done it twice now... but the game actually will figure this out after a few seconds and reset Sora's position to the beginning of the area instead of letting you keep falling or just giving you a Game Over.

That aside... I'd think one of the things that makes or breaks the game for people is the play-with-your-Dream-Eater mechanic. Some find it repetitive or stupid, some like it, some just use it for power. I might want to play the game ignoring my Spirits, but then I wouldn't get nearly as much power out of the deal.

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Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Tue May 13, 2014 5:32 am

I think what drove me crazy in the little bit that I played was the "approaching the world" sections and the constant "drop" portions. The fact that I was constantly racing around in order to make some kind of progress was a little annoying. I also didn't really get the hang of flowmotion-ing. I should probably step down to like Standard or something and get used to the game first before trying to hardass it XD

That and exploration was a tad annoying with flowmotion in my opinion. And if we're talking disappointment over Voice Acting, I think my biggest disappointment was Joshua not being matched closer. The others were fine, but Joshua...
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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Tue May 13, 2014 6:28 am

...Why. The HELL. Did you start on ANYTHING ABOVE STANDARD IN A GAME WITH ENTIRELY NEW MECHANICS!?

My yelling aside, I actually play something like KHII and find myself missing Flowmotion. It definitely made fast-travelling possible, and more stylish than just constantly spamming Dodge Roll for the illusion of speedy movement. It's easy enough to get used to moving with it, but ATTACKING with it is tricky. But only when the game is being hard... because, see, you DON'T get invincibility frames. At least, not many of them. In a challenge where you need to avoid being hit, or on higher difficulties, using Flow-Mo Attacks can lock you into an attack while an enemy murders your helpless character. Again, only an issue on higher difficulties or challenges.

Oh, once I realized that Drop-Me-Not items were easily purchased, I just took to spamming those. You should, too, Edgar. There's no point in letting the Drop Gauge dictate what you do, or when. Plus, with the extra time, your bonuses will be immense... I took up a policy of only Dropping when I either had advanced as far as possible with one character, or when I maxed out my Drop Points. That way, I could take up a whole slew of bonuses upon switching, resulting in me playing most of the game with more bonuses than normal, with the only downside being a slight hit to my wallet - doesn't matter - and the time it takes to switch in a Drop-Me-Not item and use it, then switch back to whatever I had in that command slot before. It's worth it.

...Uh, in TWEWY, we heard Joshua speak ONE full sentence in a cutscene. Everything else was a clip of, say, him laughing, or his in-battle phrases, which would have been compressed to fit onto the DS, and to fit in so many, would be more compressed than in the special cutscenes. So we only heard him speak clearly once in TWEWY, and he sounded about the same as in KH3D. I assumed he was the same actor in the first place.


As for exploration, yeah, Flowmotion breaks it, and removes a lot of the feeling of platforming. At the same time, it's completely optional to use Flowmotion, and I'm pretty sure the game is designed so that you never have to use it, outside of one boss fight where it starts you off automatically pursuing the boss by Flowmotion.

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Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Tue May 13, 2014 1:45 pm

Because I fancied myself a KH MLG XD

Seriously though, I've played the games enough to beat each of them on Proud, or Critical if it's available, at least once. Not to mention after reading the manual I was like "Oh, it's a Parkour BBS/Coded. I can handle that." Apparently not XD

You know, it's honestly a /really/ cool mechanic, and if I can figure it out a little better I'm sure it'd be amazing, but that'll require practice and me beating three other 3DS games in order to get to the game again because JESUS CHRIST MY BACKLOG OF SHIT. Though the lack of i-frames doesn't super concern me, especially since Glide never had any and the walls should provide Aerial Dodges.

Ohhhhh. That's what those did? I feel kinda stupid now XD I've also been wondering: should I plow through the game with one character, or beat each world with each of them?

I played some quotes in each back, and I guess TWEWY's sounded a little deeper to me, I suppose, but listening to them now it's not as noticeable.

The reason I say I didn't like the Flowmotion exploring isn't because it's not fun, but I tend to overcompensate jumps and miss things and because I felt like I explored a lot with Sora in Traverse Town and only got like a fifth of the treasure boxes.

EDIT: Also, the whole Dreameater thing? Is probably the same system they used in Pokemon X and Y, which is effectively the Nintendogs game minus the competitions.
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Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue May 13, 2014 9:35 pm

I think I started on Proud. Can't be sure, since I accidentally saved over that file with a Critical Mode run...

Like I said, it's annoying when you don't want to use Flowmotion and the game forces you into it, but...well, in most situations, you do want to use it. And what happens if you fight that one boss that starts you rail-grinding and your Flowmotion is turned off?

I never really used Drop-Me-Nots. I just feel like there's always something better that I can put in the same slot, and it's tedious and annoying to go through the menus every time I'd want to use one. Plus, I tend to set up my Command Deck with combos that I can use when I see an opening, and...well, knowing me, I'd press X one too many times and use an item I didn't want to use. Though I will say it's annoying to see something I want on the Drop Bonus menu and not be able to afford it...

I don't remember ever having a problem with the Dive sections. It's fairly simple, with simple objectives, and it plays like StarFox, only easier.

I actually found the Dream Eater games to be weirdly fun, but at the same time, I didn't use them all that much. It was basically just for when I wanted to slack off and do something stupid...La. La. La, la-la la! Lalalalala la la la la. Lalalalala la la, la-la-la!

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Wed May 14, 2014 3:07 am

No, you can turn off the Flowmotion ATTACKS, and avoid activating Flowmotion in the first place. That fight is the only point in the game where you can't avoid using Flowmotion, because you start off using it, and it's probably impossible to win without it.

I decided it was worth it to either fumble around with them or use up a slot if it meant staying as one character for longer. I mean, it's not like you can play the whole game as, say, Riku, then go back and do it all as Sora, since it prevents forward progress beyond certain points until both characters have cleared all the stories leading up to it.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Wed May 14, 2014 2:52 pm

Really? Because I explicitly remember turning off Flowmotion in that fight I mentioned earlier with Riku. And I also distinctly remember walking on the rails he'd otherwise grind... I will concede that that fight wouldn't be winnable without it, though, since he's too fast to catch up with otherwise.

Yeah, I know it does that, but I honestly prefer to Drop when the game tells me to, which is usually about once per world, and just take whatever bonuses I get, since later in the game I get enough points to get pretty much whatever bonus I want anyway.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Wed May 14, 2014 5:22 pm

The boss I was talking about was Sora's battle with the Spellican at the end of Symphony of Sorcery. Riku's boss fight in that world was completely different.

If that's how you want to play the game, sure. If you really hate having to switch characters so frequently, then spam the Drop-Me-Nots and the Drop Decelerator prize.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Wed May 14, 2014 5:30 pm

...I'm bad at wording things properly. I meant the boss that I was talking about, the one with that mantis thing whose name escapes me, where the entire outer rim of the arena is covered in grind rails.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Wed May 14, 2014 5:36 pm

...Commantis? I remember the grinding rails around his arena. So, you somehow turned Flowmotion off?

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 12:28 am

...Well, kind of. I just went back to check, and Pole Swing, Pole Spin, and Rail Grind are all listed as Flowmotion attacks, so they can be turned off the same way the attacks can. So you can't really turn Flowmotion off, per se, but I was able to dilute it enough that it didn't get in my way when I needed it.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Thu May 15, 2014 12:46 am

...This calls for experimentation... which means... SCIENCE! ...Er, so, the Special Portal that lets you re-fight Spellican, does that only appear after you clear the game? Because I already beat the bastard of a bird down in my current run, but I haven't started on the final area just yet. And I'd like to test this, but going to the trouble of starting a new file and getting to the end of Symphony of Sorcery, or beating the rest of the game, that's a bit much to rush in and do so quickly for the sake of a little test.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 2:13 am

I believe that opens as soon as you beat the world. You mean the music score on the right, if I'm not mistaken?

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Thu May 15, 2014 2:52 am

Probably. But those rematches really don't seem like the kind of thing you should be allowed to do so soon after the initial fight... considering how beefed-up the bosses are, and how they give you a bigger HP bar upon your victory.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 3:03 am

Well, you're presented with a Save Point then and there. And what would be the point of extra HP if the game is already over? There's a super-boss, and that's just about it. Considering most super-bosses, 15 HP isn't going to help very much. As for the boss himself...ehhhhh. If you can do it once, you can do it again. I find that stacking the Command Deck with 8 Curagas is usually good enough to get through most things. It's just less fun than spamming, say, Balloonga. Because BALLOONS!!!!

And it's not as if other games don't absolutely annihilate the difficulty curve with optional stuff.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Thu May 15, 2014 3:32 am

Friggin' Balloons are the best offensive tool in the game. ...Kind of an exaggeration, but I love to use them as traps, or to deal damage to a wide group of enemies or a single one without having to worry about their positioning. Plus, making Julius look pathetic is always nice.

Well, maybe they're just there so that players feel more satisfied with the postgame. I mean, what is there to it? Farming materials for Dream Eaters? Maxing out their Affection and Links? Winning every Flick Rush Cup? That's not as satisfying as kicking the ass of a forgotten Disney cartoon to get the Ultima Weapon, taking down every boss in the game as a victory tour, and generally proving that Sora and Riku are one badass duo. Sure, there's nothing to use them for but making the final boss less challenging, but there are hundreds of other games that are just like that: beat the postgame challenges and you get some super-amazing weapon or power that would make everything else a breeze.

Two mostly unrelated points I'd like to make here: Disgaea? Beat Tyrant Baal and you get the Tyrant title for Laharl, and he can instantly pass any bill he wants. Cool, but what's the point after beating the ultimate boss? Final Fantasy VII? The ultimate stuff actually causes the final boss to get strong if you use it, so you might go about obtaining it just to raise the guy's difficulty. I just felt like pointing out two interesting cases, though notably, neither has a proper post-game, as one lacks a clear-game save, and the other goes straight to the beginning of another cycle if you save after beating it.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 4:07 am

Well, yeah, but then you look at something like, say, Final Fantasy IV. The ultimate character weapons are all in the final dungeon, yeah, but there are harder bosses you can use them on, as well as a super-boss, that aren't required. Granted, that is also a game without any kind of postgame content, but all the same. Or how about something like Pokemon? Sure, you beat the game without using your Master Ball or your legendary pokemon, but...there are about a dozen other legendary pokemon to catch after you've won!

Hell, even for the KH series, it'd be kinda irregular. Even Sephiroth in KHII gives you a Drive Bar that's there for more than just "Oh, hey, I got it so I'm awesome." You can have that extra bar for, if I'm remembering right (probably not), pretty much the whole second half of the game. In the first game, you can get the Ultima Weapon in time to have it for the entirety of the final dungeon. If you're good enough at BbS, you can get some amazing stuff right from the start of the game. Alternatively, the last two or three challenges can be a good place to excercise some of your better equipment. All I'm trying to say is, there's no real reason, at least for me, to grab something if it's just for bragging rights. If I have a weapon, I want something to use it on. If I get a health extension...I want a reason to get my health extended. If all I get for beating the hardest thing in the game is a weapon, it damn well better be able to make a total pansy out of the final boss for sh*ts and giggles.

...I guess I just don't like super-bosses that much, then, huh? But then again, on PS3 you get trophies, so I guess bragging rights feel a little bit more tangible in that respect. I can actually go to the Trophy menu and see the game saying, "Hey, nice job," rather than just say, "Oh, I beat the super-boss and got a weapon even though I already wreck everything because I'm level 85...Go me?"

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Thu May 15, 2014 4:20 am

I like it when superbosses and postgame stuff has plot attached to it. Again, the Baal fight in Disgaea. That resolution almost makes it worth the hours and hours and HOURS of level grinding.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 5:17 am

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Tales of Graces f comes to mind, alongside the MMBN and MMSF series. But at the same time, I don't just want the reward for fighting the ultimate boss. I want it to be worth my time by being, in some capacity, useful. I will again draw your attention to the Sephiroth fight in KHII. The extra Drive Bar is helpful for more than just going up against the final boss. And I'm not against an ultimate boss whose power goes beyond that of the final boss, but like I said, I don't want the reward to be something that I can't use. I don't like it when a truckload of stuff opens up immediately before the final battle, because...it doesn't really help. It could get cut out with minimal impact. Perfect example, the super-boss in Kingdom Hearts Final Mix. It opens up when you reach literally the last room in the game, but what happens if you don't do it? You diverge slightly from the canon and might be confused by the "I've been to see him" line in the opening of KHII. Anything you get for beating him, since you'd be so overleveled by that point, is pointless. And that irritates me. It's so unimportant that it gets cut entirely in the American version (though that's because it's not finished...)

And yet, I'm more okay with that than I'd be with a reward that I can't make good use of. I'd rather have something cut entirely or made wholly irrelevant than be given some pointless reward that I can't use on anything. Because face it, the metagame isn't going to last forever. Just because I have this ultimate thing for multiplayer doesn't mean I consider it "worthwhile." For one thing, I barely know anyone with the same interest in games as me, and for another thing, the game is eventually going to become less popular, and anyone who's late to the party will essentially miss out on it.

Bleh. I'm rambling. Point is, yes, I like things like that to have plot attached, because it gives me a reason to go through with it even if the reward is...mediocre. For one thing, plot. And for another thing, if I get something awesome from something else along the way, I can do more with it than just go through a bunch of stuff that I did perfectly fine without it. Again, if the super-boss gives me something, I'd rather it be something that's just ridiculously overpowered so that I can annihilate everything in one shot/combo, just for fun.

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Post  NebulaGregarZX on Thu May 15, 2014 6:29 am

Allow me to present my counterpoint.

Model OX.

That is all.

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Post  Haar_Dragon on Thu May 15, 2014 9:08 pm

I believe that falls under "ridiculously overpowered...just for fun." Besides, ZX is weird in that the Mechaniloids reappear, so you can fight them and the final boss. So...wrecking thigns. Woo.

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